{"id":13932,"date":"2014-01-16T15:36:12","date_gmt":"2014-01-16T20:36:12","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/angry.net\/blog2\/?p=13932"},"modified":"2019-10-17T05:49:57","modified_gmt":"2019-10-17T09:49:57","slug":"fisa-judges-still-dont-get-it","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/angry.net\/blog2\/?p=13932","title":{"rendered":"FISA judges still don\u2019t get it"},"content":{"rendered":"

This came out a few days ago. As you know, more and more people as well as members of congress are starting to take a long and overdue look at just how the FISA court has been operating for the last few years.<\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

Thanks to the Snowden revelations, people are understanding that the FISA judges, rather then look at all these requests from various government agencies with a jaundiced eye, have instead been nothing more then a rubber stamp for whatever actions agencies such as the NSA wanted. You would think that the judges on the FISA court would have noticed that the people are getting rather upset with the Government basically pillaging their data and records. Nope. These judicial idiots are doubling down on their stupidity and arrogance. Here are the details from the LA Times<\/a>:<\/p>\n

Judges on the federal government’s secret surveillance court have strongly rejected any proposed changes to their review process, putting unexpected pressure on the White House<\/a> on Tuesday as President Obama<\/a> prepares a speech aimed at bolstering public confidence in how the government collects intelligence.<\/p>\n

In a blunt letter to the House and Senate<\/a> intelligence and judiciary committees, U.S. District Judge John D. Bates made it clear that the 11 judges on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court are united in opposition to key recommendations by a presidential task force last month aimed at increasing transparency and judicial oversight, including at least one that Obama has tentatively endorsed.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

To quote The Captain ((What we’ve got here is (a) failure to communicate<\/a>)), \u201cWhat we\u2019ve got here is failure to communicate.\u201d These judges have not only misread the public attitude towards what\u2019s been going on, they have completely failed in their duty to the Constitution of the United States, specifically the 4th<\/sup> Amendment ((Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution<\/a>)). Allow me to refresh your memory on this fine amendment:<\/p>\n

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

\"Stock<\/a><\/p>\n

And here is the crux of the matter. If an average person reads this, they would understandably think that the information on their phone as well as on the phone company\u2019s systems is considered private and that if the government had a reason for want it, they would ask for a search warrant and show cause as to why it should be granted. The problem is judges and lawyers hate the 4th<\/sup> Amendment and the need to show cause. They would rather just sweep up everything and have it available if they want to rummage through it. The FISA Court judges have just announced that they don\u2019t want to listen to the people.<\/p>\n

The surveillance court judges have not previously gone public so it is difficult to gauge how much weight their opposition carries. But their skepticism adds to a list of hurdles for those advocating significant reforms following former National Security Agency<\/a> contractor Edward Snowden<\/a>‘s massive disclosures of domestic and foreign surveillance programs.<\/p>\n

Most surprisingly, Bates said the judges opposed adding an independent advocate for privacy and civil liberties to the court’s classified hearings, saying the proposal was “unnecessary \u2014 and could prove counterproductive.”<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

\"bullshit-meter\"<\/a><\/p>\n

Of course it would prove counterproductive. They might actually have to consider the constitutionality of what they are doing, rather then just ignore the Constitution as they have pretty much been doing for who knows how long. Judge Bates also states that all the judges on the bench are opposed to any and all changes in how the FISA court works.<\/p>\n

Bates said he had consulted with current and former judges on the secret court and one above it that reviews its decisions, and thus speaks for them. His three-page letter was accompanied by 15 pages of judicial comments and legal footnotes.<\/p>\n

The judges were uniformly against making the secret judicial review more transparent, a practice that Obama has espoused. “Releasing freestanding summaries of court opinions is likely to promote confusion and misunderstanding,” Bates wrote.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

\"stamp<\/a><\/p>\n

Misunderstanding? Oh I love this! What this walking puke is saying is that the average citizen is to stupid to understand how judges think and that they should just shut up and fork over everything agencies like the NSA and DOIJ want, no questions asked. (They certainly won\u2019t be answered)<\/p>\n

His letter said the judges also opposed broadening the selection process of FISA court judges, who now are chosen only by the chief justice of the Supreme Court. Obama has not signaled whether he is considering changing that system to add diversity to the FISA court.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

John Roberts, the current Chief Justice of the Supreme Court has demonstrated his unfitness for the bench with his ruling on Obamacare. He is the last person I want to have sole jurisdiction over who will be sitting on this Star Chamber ((The Star Chamber<\/a>)) style court. Frankly, I think the whole idea of the FISA court is unconstitutional and that it should be abolished. At the very least, judges being selected to sit on the court should be reviewed by the Senate, just like any other applicant for a federal judgeship.<\/p>\n

Not unexpectedly, the judges announced their reluctance to drastically expand their caseload by being required to review and approve so-called national security letters. The FBI<\/a> currently uses the letters and needs no warrant to issue administrative subpoenas to gain access to customer records from telephone, credit card and other companies more than 20,000 times a year.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

As far as I\u2019m concerned, the \u201cNational Security letters ((National security letter<\/a>))\u201d are so blatantly unconstitutional, that if FBI agents try to use them, they should be flat out fired along with anyone who approved it. I also think that agents coming in waiving these things should be run off the premises, by force of arms if necessary. If you get one of these letters, you are basically stripped of any and all constitutional rights to seek redress and can and will be thrown in prison. Eventually, some idiot FBI agent is going to throw one of these letters in someone\u2019s face and end up with an ass full of buckshot. However, the NSL\u2019s are a discussion for another day. Getting back to the black robed tyrants on the FISA court:<\/p>\n

Even if they were given extra resources, requiring a judge’s approval for each subpoena “would fundamentally transform the nature of the [court] to the detriment of its current responsibilities,” Bates wrote.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Yeah, it would start becoming constitutional. In fact, pretty much any court could handle the work and probably in a more responsible manner then you tyrannical jackals. I guess you would all have to go back to working on the federal version of traffic court.<\/p>\n

The most sweeping recommendation by the presidential task force would force the NSA to stop collecting and archiving Americans’ telephone toll records, and shift responsibility for the vast database back to the telephone companies or a private entity.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Which they don\u2019t want to do.<\/p>\n

But telecommunications officials and some members of Congress are sharply opposed to ordering private companies to hold records of billions of American telephone calls for government use because of potential legal liability and the cost.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Here is the question not to many people seem to be asking. Why the hell is the NSA collecting all this information on AMERICAN CITIZENS INSIDE THE UNITED STATES??? Shouldn\u2019t they be concentrating their efforts on, you know, foreign governments and people? The ones who want to actually destroy us? Congress is holding hearings on this, not that I expect much to come from it.<\/p>\n

\"1984-Big-Brother-Poster\"<\/a><\/p>\n

At a Senate Judiciary Committee<\/a> hearing Tuesday, some lawmakers worried whether the records would be secure in private hands.<\/p>\n

Among those who testified was Cass Sunstein, a former Obama advisor who served on the task force. Asked about Bates’ opposition to naming a privacy advocate, Sunstein told the committee: “We respectfully disagree with that one.\u2026 In our tradition, the judge doesn’t decide whether one [side] or another gets a lawyer.”<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

It isn\u2019t just tradition, its the law. Under our constitution, everyone gets a lawyer of they want one. With the FISA courts, you might not even be notified that you were getting your information handed over to the government. It would be nice if the United States Government actually tried following the constitution for once.<\/p>\n

Privacy activists don’t expect Obama to announce major reforms in his speech Friday, said Fred Cate, a law professor at Indiana University.<\/p>\n

“I don’t think anyone is expecting this to be good news,” he said. Given that Snowden’s leaks to the media have caused an uproar overseas, “I don’t see that this is likely to get him out of hot water with Europe or with the privacy community.”<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Frankly, I don\u2019t give a rats behind what the Europeans and others might think. For them to say they are shocked, SHOCKED that the United States is spying on them is disingenuous at best.<\/p>\n

[youtuber youtube=’http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=SjbPi00k_ME’]<\/p>\n

Everyone knows that we spy on other countries and they spy on us. It\u2019s expected. What is angering people here is our government spying on Americans and courts that are just rubber stamps for whatever the government wants. If anyone thinks Obama is going to actually do anything about this, or that the Congress is going to reign in the intelligence agencies, think again. It looks to me that our only hope of fixing things that doesn\u2019t involve guns and mass causalities is Mark Levin\u2019s ideas in the The Liberty Amendments.<\/a>\"\" It may be time for a Constitutional Convention to strip away the powers usurped by the Federal Courts and government.<\/p>\n

Thatisall<\/p>\n

~The Angry Webmaster~<\/b><\/i>
\n\"1\"2\"3\"4\"5 (1<\/strong> votes, average: 1.00<\/strong> out of 5)
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Former Presiding Judge, John Bates, Makes Compelling Case to …<\/h3>\n<\/div>\n
This is particularly troubling given that, as Bates portrays the process, the \u201cFISC may request or receive information from the applicant informally through the legal staff\u201d (which according to Judge Walton’s portrayal of the process, means via the … For example, there may be probable cause to believe that a U.S. person is engaged in international terrorism, but intelligence agencies may not have the ability to implement current forms of FISA collection against that person because of the …<\/div>\n
http:\/\/www.emptywheel.net\/ \u2014 Wed, 15 Jan 2014 11:21:42 -0800<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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PK the Bookeemonster: Current Events – January 15, 2014<\/a><\/h3>\n<\/div>\n
The U.S. judiciary told Congress on Tuesday it opposes the idea of having an independent privacy advocate on the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, while members of Congress lauded the idea at a Capitol Hill hearing. … U.S. District Judge John D. Bates sent a letter to the Senate Intelligence Committee saying that appointing an independent advocate to the secret surveillance court is unnecessary and possibly counterproductive, and he slammed other key reforms as …<\/div>\n
http:\/\/pkmadsen.blogspot.com\/<\/a> \u2014 Wed, 15 Jan 2014 10:45:00 -0800<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Spy court judge slams proposed privacy advocate Prepper Podcast …<\/h3>\n<\/div>\n
WASHINGTON (AP) \u2013 The U.S. judiciary told Congress on Tuesday it opposes the idea of having an independent privacy advocate on the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, while members of Congress lauded the idea at a Capitol Hill … Judge John D. Bates sent a letter to the Senate Intelligence Committee saying that appointing an independent advocate to the secret surveillance court is unnecessary and possibly counterproductive, and he slammed other key reforms as …<\/div>\n
http:\/\/www.prepperpodcast.com\/ \u2014 Wed, 15 Jan 2014 10:00:31 -0800<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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US judiciary rejects NSA reform proposals from Obama’s review …<\/a><\/h3>\n<\/div>\n
Bates said that his comments were based on his consultations with the current presiding judges of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court and the Court of Review, as well as with some former judges. Obama’s panel of experts, the Review Group on … Bates strongly warned against a proposal to create a \u201cPublic Interest Advocate\u201d to represent privacy and civil liberty concerns before the court, which usually operates behind closed doors. He said it would provide \u201cgreater procedural …<\/div>\n
http:\/\/endthelie.com\/<\/a> \u2014 Wed, 15 Jan 2014 09:48:07 -0800<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Spy court judge slams privacy advocate plan | News OK | MarkMatter<\/h3>\n<\/div>\n
The U.S. judiciary told Congress on Tuesday it opposes the idea of having an independent privacy advocate on the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, while members of Congress lauded the idea at a Capitol Hill hearing. … U.S. District Judge John D. Bates sent a letter to the Senate Intelligence Committee saying that appointing an independent advocate to the secret surveillance court is unnecessary and possibly counterproductive, and he slammed other key reforms as …<\/div>\n
http:\/\/www.markmatter.com\/ \u2014 Wed, 15 Jan 2014 06:26:00 -0800<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Vox Verax: Secret surveillance court judges oppose reform ideas<\/a><\/h3>\n<\/div>\n
In a blunt letter to the House and Senate intelligence and judiciary committees, U.S. District Judge John D. Bates made it clear that the 11 judges on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court are united in opposition to key recommendations …<\/div>\n
http:\/\/voxverax.blogspot.com\/<\/a> \u2014 Wed, 15 Jan 2014 04:33:00 -0800<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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US Judge bulks at idea of non-government oversight of Obama<\/a><\/h3>\n<\/div>\n
Bates said opening the proceeding to an advocate for privacy in general \u2014 who would never meet the suspect or be able to defend the charges against him \u2014 wouldn’t create the kind of back and forth seen in open criminal or civil court proceedings. “Given the nature of FISA … Schiff, a senior member of the House intelligence committee, added that requiring the court to sign off on National Security Letters would create more work, but that’s no excuse to skip the reforms. Task force …<\/div>\n
http:\/\/capitalistsrebellion.blogspot.com\/<\/a> \u2014 Wed, 15 Jan 2014 01:20:00 -0800<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

This came out a few days ago. As you know, more and more people as well as members of congress are starting to take a long and overdue look at just how the FISA court has been operating for the last few years. 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It seems, with the recent revelations of domestic spying being done by the Federal Government, the judges who granted the warrants are upset with the accusation of being nothing more then rubber\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Crime"","block_context":{"text":"Crime","link":"https:\/\/angry.net\/blog2\/?cat=3"},"img":{"alt_text":"Going Phishing","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/angry.net\/blog2\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/07\/fishing-computer-300x150.jpg?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":13170,"url":"https:\/\/angry.net\/blog2\/?p=13170","url_meta":{"origin":13932,"position":1},"title":"FISA court tells NSA not to worry about that pesky 4th Amendment","author":"Angry Webmaster","date":"October 12, 2013","format":false,"excerpt":"In a move that should surprise no one, the FISA court has told the National Security Agency that they can continue spying American cell phones.","rel":"","context":"In "liberty"","block_context":{"text":"liberty","link":"https:\/\/angry.net\/blog2\/?cat=37"},"img":{"alt_text":"stamp rubber approved","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/angry.net\/blog2\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/07\/stamp-rubber-approved-150x150.jpg?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":39895,"url":"https:\/\/angry.net\/blog2\/?p=39895","url_meta":{"origin":13932,"position":2},"title":"Deep State tells Biden to Renew Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act","author":"Angry Webmaster","date":"March 12, 2023","format":false,"excerpt":"Good day all. The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, or FISA as it is better known, is a system that allows the DoJ to wiretap people using secret warrants. When the Greatest President of the 21st Century, Donald Trump, won the election, the Deep State used these on anyone connected to\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "liberty"","block_context":{"text":"liberty","link":"https:\/\/angry.net\/blog2\/?cat=37"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/i.pinimg.com\/originals\/25\/60\/5d\/25605d6ab7e7df069703182b83135461.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":30670,"url":"https:\/\/angry.net\/blog2\/?p=30670","url_meta":{"origin":13932,"position":3},"title":"About that FISA re-authorization bill","author":"Angry Webmaster","date":"April 19, 2020","format":false,"excerpt":"Good day all. Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act or as it\u2019s more commonly known, FISA, is a law of questionable constitutionality. The theory was that FISA would allow the FBI and DoJ the means to catch spies and terrorist by streamlining the process of getting the warrants they needed. As we\u2019ve\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Crime"","block_context":{"text":"Crime","link":"https:\/\/angry.net\/blog2\/?cat=3"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/angry.net\/blog2\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/10\/keystone-cop-300x246.jpg?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":13663,"url":"https:\/\/angry.net\/blog2\/?p=13663","url_meta":{"origin":13932,"position":4},"title":"Courts say NSA did cross the line","author":"Angry Webmaster","date":"December 17, 2013","format":false,"excerpt":"Merry Christmas, (And up Yours ACLU!), the courts have given Americans a little Christmas present. Granted, it\u2019s not a great present, but it is a start. A Federal Judge has awakened from his Eggnog induced coma and looked at the 4th Amendment and what the NSA is actually doing.","rel":"","context":"In "Crime"","block_context":{"text":"Crime","link":"https:\/\/angry.net\/blog2\/?cat=3"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/angry.net\/blog2\/wp-content\/uploads\/2012\/06\/Gadsden_flag.png?fit=800%2C533&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/angry.net\/blog2\/wp-content\/uploads\/2012\/06\/Gadsden_flag.png?fit=800%2C533&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/angry.net\/blog2\/wp-content\/uploads\/2012\/06\/Gadsden_flag.png?fit=800%2C533&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/angry.net\/blog2\/wp-content\/uploads\/2012\/06\/Gadsden_flag.png?fit=800%2C533&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x"},"classes":[]},{"id":30249,"url":"https:\/\/angry.net\/blog2\/?p=30249","url_meta":{"origin":13932,"position":5},"title":"FISA warrants against Carter Page WERE illegal","author":"Angry Webmaster","date":"January 27, 2020","format":false,"excerpt":"Good day all. A couple of years ago, reports came out that the Obama Justice Department has been bugging the Trump transition team. At first, the CommuNazis, (Formally known as Democrats), denied this and accused anyone who believed to of being a conspiracy theorist. 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