{"id":45536,"date":"2025-08-23T08:09:31","date_gmt":"2025-08-23T12:09:31","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/angry.net\/blog2\/?p=45536"},"modified":"2025-08-23T08:09:31","modified_gmt":"2025-08-23T12:09:31","slug":"several-more-shoes-dropping-with-the-sig-sauer-p320","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/angry.net\/blog2\/?p=45536","title":{"rendered":"Several more shoes dropping with the Sig Sauer P320"},"content":{"rendered":"

Good day all. A few weeks ago I wrote a post regarding the Sig Sauer P320<\/a> and it\u2019s military variants, the M17\/18. The P320 has developed a reputation of having what are called \u201cUncommanded Discharges.\u201d Basically, the gun goes off without the trigger being pulled.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>
\n<\/p>\n

At the time of the original post, a member of the United States Air Force had allegedly been killed by his own gun when it was sitting on his desk. Since then, a report has come out<\/a> of another airman being charged with accidentally causing the death of the first airman. There is a lot that isn\u2019t known about that case of course. Now another story has come out that indicates that Sig Sauer and the Military knew there were problems with the P320 design and went into production anyway. Here are the details from the Smoking Gun, (Seriously. That\u2019s the name of the site)<\/b><\/a>:<\/p>\n

A court exhibit<\/a> recently published online summarizes Sig Sauer\u2019s internal P320 testing and shows that the gun maker and U.S. Army were both aware of serious safety risks with the pistol since at least 2017, years before it was fielded to soldiers as the full-size M17 and compact M18. The document \u2014 prepared as a part of Sig Sauer\u2019s contracting process with the U.S. Army \u2014 outlines multiple ways the pistol could fire without an intentional trigger pull. <\/b><\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a><\/p>\n

Now, the document in question appears to be from a court case involving Sig Sauer.<\/p>\n

A redacted version of the court document was originally filed on May 14 in a case between attorney Jeffrey Bagnell and Sig Sauer. On July 24, a gun blogger<\/a> was able to delete the purported redactions and post an unredacted version of the document. On July 28, Sig Sauer filed a motion<\/a> requesting the court to remove the exhibit from public access,1<\/a> but guntubers and social media users reposted it before the court ruled.\u00a0 <\/b><\/p>\n

As the old saying goes, what\u2019s on the internet, stays on the internet. It doesn\u2019t matter what the judge orders, there is no way the document can be pulled back once it \u201cGets into the wild.\u201d<\/p>\n

In an August 6 interview, Sig Sauer\u2019s senior vice president of consumer affairs, Phil Strader, acknowledged that the company created the document in response to a request by the U.S. military, and claimed that is being used to \u201cconfuse the issue.\u201d2<\/a> Strader also described the contents of the document and the various risks analyzed by Sig Sauer engineers. With respect to its confidentiality, Strader stated, \u201cNow that it is out there, we don\u2019t mind. We\u2019ll discuss exactly\u2026I\u2019ll go line by line if you wanted me to.\u201d3<\/a> <\/b><\/p>\n

I glanced at the document and I\u2019m not going to claim I understand everything in it. If this had been a document indicating issues to be resolved, which were then fixed, this whole thing would be a nonissue. However, it doesn\u2019t appear that the problems identified were wholly or completely resolved.<\/p>\n

Sig Sauer\u2019s own analysis identified 13 different situations where P320s could fire unintentionally, but many were left unresolved. While seven were \u201celiminated\u201d according to Sig Sauer, six were still designated as posing a \u201cmedium\u201d risk to users. Notably, many of the \u201crecommended actions\u201d to address the issues, either partially or fully, involved user training \u2014 not a design modification. <\/b><\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a><\/p>\n

These days, when a firearms manufacturer designs a new firearm, they test it extensively to make sure that it only goes BANG when the trigger is pulled. This is something that has been understood for well over a century. Now the original Colt .45 Single Action Army is a case in point.<\/p>\n

These are single action pistols. The hammer has to be cocked in order for it to fire. In the normal course of events, the hammer is actually down and due to the design at the time, that hammer was resting just on or slightly off the primer in the cartridge. A good whack on the hammer and the gun could and did go off. The \u201cTraining\u201d involved was to only load 5 cartridges and let the hammer rest on an empty chamber in the cylinder. Every gun designer learned from that and today you don\u2019t need to have an empty chamber on a revolver.<\/p>\n

In total, the FMECA identified 17 hazards that could result in a person being killed unintentionally by a P320. Even after Sig Sauer\u2019s proposed mitigations, nine of those remained at a \u201cmedium\u201d risk level. Of the eight initially rated as \u201chigh\u201d risk, only three were fully eliminated, leaving five at a \u201cmedium\u201d risk. Four of the six hazards initially classified as \u201cserious\u201d also remained at a \u201cmedium\u201d risk. <\/b><\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a><\/p>\n

Sig Sauer also stated that the manual safeties on M17 and M18 pistols would resolve some of the issues, but the vast majority<\/a> of P320s sold to civilians do not feature such safeties.<\/b><\/p>\n

A lot of striker fired pistol, such as the Sig P320, the Sig P365, (Which doesn\u2019t appear to have the 320\u2019s issues), and the Glock generally don\u2019t come with external safeties. The military, however, wanted an external safety added to the M17\/18 pistols as an additional safety measure. All semiautomatic pistols that United States Military has deployed have had an external safety.<\/p>\n

The first semiautomatic pistol fielded by the U.S. Military, the Colt M1911, actually has two safety systems. One is the external safety that you flick off when preparing to fire. The other is a grip safety. If this isn\u2019t depressed, the pistol will not fire. The military doesn\u2019t believe in taking chances with uncommanded discharges. Now how effective that external safety is on the P320, I can\u2019t say.<\/p>\n

The FMECA, combined with a fiscal year 2017 Department of Defense report<\/a> referencing failed drop tests, demonstrates that Army officials were aware of the dangers yet moved forward in issuing the M17 and M18 to soldiers, and subsequently other branches of the military.\u00a0 <\/b><\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a><\/p>\n

There have been a number of people who were wondering why and how Sig Sauer actually got the contract. Beretta, which was offering an upgraded version of the M9, was thought to have an inside track. As I understand it, it was the modularity of the M17 that pushed it over the finish line. Being able to take the FCU, (Fire Control Group or Trigger Group), and putting it into different frames with different calibers was seen as a game changer. (Which it actually is)<\/p>\n

Despite these findings \u2014 and dozens of lawsuits filed by plaintiffs alleging that their P320s fired without intentional trigger pulls \u2014 Sig Sauer has repeatedly denied<\/a> that the P320 is defective. On July 29, 2025, the company published a blog post<\/a> promising customers \u201cfull, complete, and accurate information\u201d regarding the P320, but reiterated that the gun \u201cis one of the safest, most advanced pistols in the world -meeting and exceeding all industry safety standards.\u201d <\/b><\/p>\n

The company also said that the P320 \u201cCANNOT, under any circumstances, discharge without the trigger first being moved to the rear.\u201d <\/b><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

This phrasing is slightly different from what Sig Sauer said<\/a> in March after the Washington State Criminal Justice Training Commission (WSCJTC) banned the gun<\/a> from its properties and courses, stating that the P320 \u201cCANNOT, under any circumstances, discharge without a trigger pull.\u201d In that statement, the company also blamed the \u201canti-gun mob\u201d for attacks on the P320. <\/b><\/p>\n

That is an interesting change in the wording. Notice that they don\u2019t specify the trigger being pulled, only that it can\u2019t be fired without being moved to the rear. The video by Wyoming Gun Project and replicated by others showed that if the trigger was moved backwards by less then a millimeter and then the frame manipulated, the firing pin would drop and the gun would go off. Wyoming Gun Project used a screw to push the trigger back about half a millimeter and he documented everything very carefully.<\/p>\n

The original remarks by Sig Sauer back in March basically insulted anyone who questioned the safety of the P320. Anyone who did question Sig Sauer was antigun and anti-Second Amendment. The response to that by people in the firearms community was \u201cAre you smoking crack?\u201d<\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

The people criticizing Sig Sauer are extremely pro-Second Amendment. They were saying \u201cHey, there looks like there might be a design flaw here and you need to look into it.\u201d Sig\u2019s response is probably going down with other marketing ideas such as Bud Light\u2019s thinking that Dylan Mulvaney would improve sales or Jaguar\u2019s recent rebranding fiasco<\/a>. What Sig should have done was simply say, \u201cWe don\u2019t believe there is an issue, however we will do a detailed review.\u201d<\/p>\n

Now I can\u2019t make any assertions to the accuracy of the article by the Smoking Gun<\/a>, but I can\u2019t see them not being very careful in vetting everything in this story. I also don\u2019t think that Sig Sauer are helping themselves by attacking anyone who says \u201cHey, I think there might be a problem here.\u201d<\/p>\n

This is a shame too. Sig has a long history of making some really nice firearms. The Sig P220, the P226 and the P229 come to mind. These all have a long history of safety, reliability and accuracy.<\/p>\n

As to where this will all end? I have no clue. I won\u2019t be surprised if the P320 is pulled from the market eventually. Sales are collapsing. No one wants to take the risk with it. I won\u2019t be surprised if some oversight committee starts looking into the entire procurement process, especially if this document from the Smoking Gun is correct. Needless to say, I won\u2019t be holding my breath.<\/p>\n

Thatisall<\/p>\n\"1\"2\"3\"4\"5 (2<\/strong> votes, average: 5.00<\/strong> out of 5)
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~The Angry Webmaster~<\/b><\/i><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Good day all. A few weeks ago I wrote a post regarding the Sig Sauer P320 and it\u2019s military variants, the M17\/18. The P320 has developed a reputation of having what are called \u201cUncommanded Discharges.\u201d Basically, the gun goes off … Continue reading →<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"advanced_seo_description":"","jetpack_seo_html_title":"","jetpack_seo_noindex":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[71,204,115,219],"tags":[125,222,15,101,110,159,1975,1965,34,57],"class_list":["post-45536","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-news-of-the-day","category-second-amendment-2","category-stupidity-crime","category-the-good-idea-fairy","tag-epic-fail","tag-good-idea-fairy","tag-incompetence","tag-news","tag-scoamf","tag-second-amendment","tag-sig-p320","tag-sig-sauer","tag-stupidity","tag-technology"],"views":265,"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":45442,"url":"https:\/\/angry.net\/blog2\/?p=45442","url_meta":{"origin":45536,"position":0},"title":"Sig Sauer and the Sig P320 debacle","author":"Angry Webmaster","date":"August 3, 2025","format":false,"excerpt":"Good day all. I\u2019m going to write about something I usually don\u2019t talk much about, other then my unconditional support for the 2nd Amendment. It\u2019s about firearms. In this case, I\u2019m going to talk about the Sig Sauer P320 and it\u2019s military equivalents, the M17\/M18. First, the Due Diligence. I\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "News of the Day"","block_context":{"text":"News of the Day","link":"https:\/\/angry.net\/blog2\/?cat=71"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/angry.net\/blog2\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/03\/keepcalmshoe-300x233.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":34262,"url":"https:\/\/angry.net\/blog2\/?p=34262","url_meta":{"origin":45536,"position":1},"title":"Fake President abolishes 2nd Amendment","author":"Angry Webmaster","date":"April 8, 2021","format":false,"excerpt":"Good day all. The United States is now in the hands of a genuine tyrant. 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However, it\u2019s beginning to sink into the thick skulls of many of these morons that calling for the murder of Federal Agents might not be a good idea. One\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Just Desserts"","block_context":{"text":"Just Desserts","link":"https:\/\/angry.net\/blog2\/?cat=135"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/i.pinimg.com\/736x\/62\/60\/23\/626023bbdf9688b9a338e9d38c9f11f0.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":46811,"url":"https:\/\/angry.net\/blog2\/?p=46811","url_meta":{"origin":45536,"position":4},"title":"Philly Soros DA Krasner is at it again, threatening ICE agents","author":"Angry Webmaster","date":"April 2, 2026","format":false,"excerpt":"Good day all. Now that Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents have gone into airports to assist with the security screenings. The usual suspects on the left are screaming about ICE looking to shoot up airports. 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It lists 150 firearms by name including the AR15, and also goes after handguns as well.","rel":"","context":"In "liberty"","block_context":{"text":"liberty","link":"https:\/\/angry.net\/blog2\/?cat=37"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/angry.net\/blog2\/wp-content\/uploads\/2012\/11\/constitution-burning.jpeg.jpg?fit=650%2C432&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/angry.net\/blog2\/wp-content\/uploads\/2012\/11\/constitution-burning.jpeg.jpg?fit=650%2C432&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/angry.net\/blog2\/wp-content\/uploads\/2012\/11\/constitution-burning.jpeg.jpg?fit=650%2C432&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x"},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/angry.net\/blog2\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/45536","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/angry.net\/blog2\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/angry.net\/blog2\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/angry.net\/blog2\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/angry.net\/blog2\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=45536"}],"version-history":[{"count":4,"href":"https:\/\/angry.net\/blog2\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/45536\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":45541,"href":"https:\/\/angry.net\/blog2\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/45536\/revisions\/45541"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/angry.net\/blog2\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=45536"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/angry.net\/blog2\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=45536"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/angry.net\/blog2\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=45536"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}